Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche's site -
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Actual mysticism - 1 of a continuing series
Okay fine, I'll say it: the 1 thing I've been witholding from everyone, everywhere, everybody, all this time, is just that I've been training to be a shaman since I had my vision at age 5.
That's why the unconventional life-style and personal history ... from having a scholarship to Banff School of Fine Arts to dropping out of high-school and joining electronic espionage in the army.
All of it: the deep-background radicalism, the raising 5 kids in the highlands, the hi-tech hot-shot at 19, the monasticism, the pool-hustling beer-guzzling street musician, the project-spouting academic, the djembe-playing trance-dancing... just field research.
Those who care to know could have figured it out. I know some have had their intuitions; they've helped me some. The rest are either as though brain-damaged or they intentionally talk themselves out of their authentic intuition ... as they always do ... likely coming up with a whole set of ways to demean and dismiss me; most antagonism is a smoke-screen for evasion and denial. That's how it works: no point my trying to convince folk since if they need to be convinced it's likely for the worst of reasons.)
How does it work? Simple. (No, not easy ... I wrote "simple" cuz I meant "simple"; thinking at the level of a 3 year old is one of the many ways you avoid understanding.) ... I go "there" and come back with an un-typical experience, is all. The classical "heroes' quest".
Ultimate View ... either you are intentionally for others or you are against others, however "un-intentionally" ... deniability is key to the BluePill. And the BluePill view is all about gaining by others' loss.
No big deal? Major big deal.
There are something like 600,000,000 psychopaths and sociopaths in the world; most are clumsy and ignorant (cuz most folk are, actually, clumsy and ignorant) but a few have the benefits of rich society: education, position, credibility. So let's say there are something like 60,000,000 of thos.
Now thing is, sociopaths are hell-bent on wrecking other folk and they very usually bring their palaces down upon themselves, through strife or war or criminality. But psychopaths aren't that way: they don't mind wrecking folk, causing suffering, but they aren't sadistic ... for them other people are just objects to manipulate. Empower them with the trappings of power, and you got Problems with a capital P and Trouble with a capital T. So let's say they're half and half, sociopaths and psychopahts. Let's say of the 6 billion creatures on the gods' good earth there are 30,000,000 psychopaths in positions to do pretty much what they will. (See my venerable old "Fallen Angels", created in 1996.) And prolly gender neutral, so 15,000,000 men. (Hey, get off the pot ... it's still a chauvinistic world.)
Do I really think I can work through the forest of psychopaths? No. There's little to be done with them.
But what about the 5 billion people who are neither psychopaths nor sociopaths?
Guess what: if you aren't intentionally for others then you will easily cut a deal with the psychos ... with the bullies and his helpers ... left wing or right wing, corporate suits or drug-lord peasant-leaders, commie or fascist ... deniably, of course, professing that evil was never your intention ... and that's how it works: I'm like against an army of vampires, carrying a light, and you all are the scorpions and bushes and crawling bugs and biting snakes that swarm me as I stumble through the out-back.
When you are truly for yourself you are truly and intentionally for others. That's Ultimate View ... how we are not seperated by self-interest.
This after yet again delving authentically into actual desperation. (75c left and 3 weeks before my cheque comes; will I magnetize another brain-killing job in hi-tech?)
There. That's how it works.
May all beings realize the root of happiness free from suffering.
Tell me something: I just peeked a page layout I came up with ?what? 5 or 6 years ago
. What do you think of it? My perenially alpha homepage
is more to my liking, but ...
i argued with a friend once (he translated nagarjuna's fundamental wisdom of the middle way). i asked him why bother - why not just genuinely and authentically seek enlightenment, and seek the enlightenment of others?
he said to me that that couldn't be everyone's job. some people were needed to have the high levels of knowledge, true cultivation of the ultimate view, but more people were needed to disseminate and spread the teachings. and still more were needed to keep society functioning - we need butchers, bakers, farmers.
i partially agree with him, but it sounded kinda like saying: sorry kiddo, but the buddha wasn't being realistic - most of us are gonna remain unenlightened schmucks.
and, you know, i think to myself - if i really believe that, then what on earth am i doing?
sorry, that was a little tangential.
anyway - liked this post. oh, and i tried out your hint about eating frozen veg with rice. you add some chicken stock - just like fried rice.
Between you, me, and these here walls *thunk thunk thunk*
"sorry kiddo, but the buddha wasn't being realistic - most of us are gonna remain unenlightened schmucks."
So I was chatting with one of the 3-year retreatants (They sometimes pass through the main monastery building.) and we were chatting about mundane behaviour, the sorta thing that drives folks crazy and I made a comment about, I dunno, paying attention to others ... "consciousness of space" is what it's called in kyu.do ... anyhow, he kinda *tut tut*s me and sez, "We can leave that sort of thing in the shrine-room." *wide-eyed stare*
Between you and me, k? Thus has it always been. Over-achievers aren't constrained to business and high-finance. "Wisdom without practice is like a rich man shackled to his treasure." Amazing how things get simple when we drop the Judeo-Christian rationalizations and abandon condemnation; there is no sin ... just neurosis, confusion and fear and bewilderment and all the other stuff that oughta move us to give folk fond looks and warm hugs. Thus has it always been.
"Just like fried rice"
Youuuuuuuuuuu are suuuuuuuuch a treat! huh huh.
K, here's where the pragmatics pan out: keeping to a simply diet on even a meager budget, one might afford a bag of very very fine miso ... lasts for months and ooooh-ohhhhhhh soooooo good!
p.s. as I commented to someone else in another thread earlier: A peculiar thing this morning: "I woke up from a very vivid dream with, well, the concept for a mad-cap novel in mind. Does "42" resonate with you? Anyhow, I stumbled to the keyboard (I haven't been able to find refills for my lovely fountain pen) and created The Golden Pig ... mebbe use Wiki as an interactive book?"
What I really value ... and this has everything to do with being ngakpa (google it, do!), relationship to consort ... in the dream as I gazed ever more deeply into her eyes I thought of how that would distract me from a spontaneous appreciation of the entire situation. Thing is, after waking and writing, I find that I can recall a lot about her but not a lot about the rest of the scene and the people in it! heeheee
BTW: did you ever check out "Vox"? my http://bentrem.vox.com turned out quite well, though it isn't active.
I can't bring myself to think that you intended to bum me out, but ... really.
3 words? 3?!
You couldn't even manage an entire sentence?
Thank you for reminding me how very little I matter to others.
Pray, tell, how was it in your self-interest (certainly not enlightened in any manner) to spend 22.5 seconds on this, rather than a whole 45 seconds?
Imagine a whole nation people by folk with your attitude. You get what we got: fat, lazy, slothful, self-indulgent narcissists.
Know what I mean by "5th column"? I mean people whose actual actions serve to bum out and obstruct anyone who's making an honest effort. Deniably, of course. (Certain way to look an asshole is to point and say, "That's bullshit!") You know what I mean ... the snide put down, the oh-so-clever one-liner. Or the "damned with faint praise" 3 word reply to a post of this length.
... it's an epidemic.
Have a non-kneejerk thought sometime. For the sake of all sentient beings.
Wow, major misunderstanding. "When you are truly for yourself you are truly and intentionally for others." I was commenting on that, and the phrase Enlightened Self-Interest popped into my head.
It was something a teacher said once about focusing on your self in order to help others and she coined the term Enlightened Self-Interest.
Not sure why you thought it was an attack but that’s the emptiness of that, or maybe I should explain my self better next time? Or maybe one should ask what is meant by a certain term rather then make harsh judgements?
"Harsh judgements"? More like, "Don't say anything I don't like". I can't imagine how I could have been less harsh.
Not sure why? Gee, I didn't think "3 words? 3?! You couldn't even manage an entire sentence?" was real unclear.
Or maybe making reference to the actuality is just plain rude.
Yaa, I think that's it.
Explain yourself better? What part of "Can't manage an entire sentence" is about confusion and ambiguity?
I'm never impressed at how people make things up to shield themselves. And yet it still shows how smart, intelligent, and capable we really are. The wisdom aspect of deceit is a sort of brilliance.
But that's just me being harsh again, I suppose. And personally insulting, and ?what? arrogantly abusive.
Fact: I spoke my mind clearly.
The closest I came to actual insult was this: "Have a non-kneejerk thought sometime."
3 words in reply to my post. Three nice neat well-written paragraphs in response to my challenge.
It's there for you to see.
I did not intend for my 3 line comment to be insulting, your reply however clearly shows that intent. Next time I reply I will try to make it a 50 page essay so I don’t hurt your feelings, is that what you would like? (Now that was insulting to you, sorry)Maybe I made it short because I did not have time or was in a hurry? Maybe I had to get to work, or help someone else? Or maybe it was late at night and I have 5 pages of e-mails to sort through and 15 people to try to catch back up with since I had not been on for a long time. How do you know. Maybe my small, fable, fat, lazy mind was incapable of keeping up with your magnificent brilliance.( And thats not far from the truth, why else would I have wanted to be a friend? Because you say some pretty fucking profound albeit confusing things thats why)
But if you are really angry that I did not spend enough time replying to your comment then I am sorry. But why does it have to be so personally insulting to you? You could have joked about the lack of response time I spent on my reply and made the same point rather then say I was somehow making you feel unimportant.
At first I thought you were angry for a different reason I admit that. When I first read it I did not really understand what you meant, I cant always tell what you mean because your words are rather cryptic and when I try to understand them I come out not knowing much more.....I don’t know, I just wish you would not have been so upset over this. I am sure you don’t need the stress and neither do I.
I takes me some time to know what you are saying, maybe I am just slow and stupid but I never meant to hurt you by making you feel unimportant enough to only spend a few seconds on a comment.
You posted your "Geee wizz next time I'll post a dissertation so you don't freak out" mind-phuck over in another thread. Couldn't bother yourself to come allllll the way over here?
Rude, and rudely so.
"I like cheesecake" ...
... yet another oh-so clever quip.
I actually thought you were being decent about it, til the forked-tongue thing. I mean, I wudda deleted it anyhow, cuz that thread had nothing to do with this (pick your spot carefully when you decide to piss on someone's leg), and there's no way to just move it.
Like I said there: if ever to decide to try being authentic you'll find that things work out ... and you won't need the deniably passive-aggressive "Geee didn't you see the smiley? It was a joke ... wow, such a stalinist jerk you are!"
If you aren't sorry don't say you're sorry. That's called being dishonest.
If you act like you're apologizing and you're not, that's called manipulation.
They're both of them forms of theft.
Don't jerk me around, and don't steal from what I have here.
You wanna say something about it all, be my guest ... speak your peace, have your say.
Wanna be a pissed-pants twird, go right ahead.
3 strikes; you're out, is all.
I mean ... I'm a democrat.
I just recovered part of my original response
I liked it all the way through, especially the cheese-cake. Then your twitch came through.
First: 3 words
2nd: defensive hostility
3rd: passive aggression.
Dunno ... that's not real unclear. Is it?
I did not see that this one from you was today.
Your "I did not intend for my" seemed out of place in my mail client.
I saw your "I like cheesecake" in the other thread. I didn't think there would be one here also today.
(No subject lines + for some reason comments aren't showing up threaded here now ... which alone is dumb but w/o subject and given the one in the /wrong/ place ... I thought this was from previous.)
You right very well. "Did not intend" is always subjective; it stands (or not) in context. The "Next time I'll write a dissertation" does violence to my "You couldn't manage even a complete sentence" ... followed by "so you don't freak out", that provides context. That sure seems to show some intention.
"your reply however clearly shows that intent."
Would you rather me dish you deniabily squirmy BS? I was at least clear. If calling for at least a complete sentence is "freaking out", well ... not likely I'm gonna get a fair hearing! But I was, at least, clear.
"Maybe I made it short because I did not have time or was in a hurry?"
Gonna try to beg out? Gonna try to get me to eat it?
Then do. Straight up.
I commented on how you took the time to reply. That's something.
I hope it met at least your self-interest. Else it's, well, just neurotic.
I'll grant that.
Now let's talk brass tacks: typing a 3-word phrase takes ?what? for a 25WPM typist, lets say 15 seconds. So a sentence would take ?what? 45 seconds, maybe 60 ... a full minutes ... at 25WPM.
At 40 or 50 WPM ...
... you had 15 seconds, but not 45?
You had 10 seconds to type, but opted not for more. Ok gee golly, you typed for 20 seconds.
Where? When? In reply to what?
And consisting of what?
1 truism. No, not even that: not even a thought.
"I had not enough time to write more."
In context of what?
"cya" takes 4 seconds extra?
C'mon ... you're doing fine. Keep it up. Bring it home. Spit it out ... represent.
", I just wish you would not have been so upset over this. I am sure you don’t need the stress and neither do I."
That's very nice. Now, I have to ask myself, "How is it that he's so intelligently engaged yet can't acknowledge the slightest fact?"
And then ... in context of "dissertation, so you don't freak", I get more of that stuff, viz.: "Maybe my small, fable, fat, lazy mind was incapable of keeping up with your magnificent brilliance."
Ohhhh no, deff still on strike 2. Let's say you "fowled" on this one. Fact is effort is arguably of value.
If you're just dickin' me around, then it'll show right quick.
No need for me to jump the gun, to go off half-cocked.
Anyhow, I see that simple start homely authenticity doesn't cut the mustard for you.
"I takes me some time to know what you are saying"
Would you believe me if I wrote, "I know ... I mean, I understand, really I do"?
Would you believe me if I wrote that I appreciate you saying that?
In my tradition we say, "I regret that what I did upset you." Note: there's no "I'm sorry there" ... simply stating truth and honest fact suffices.
I don't think I said you wrote 3 words to piss me off, intentionally. I'm quite sure I didn't. If I did, then I apologize. Not just "regret", but full up "I'm sorry". If I did.
Even when we are "intentionally /for others/" we might very well still hurt folk ... we're only human.
Even if I'm not intentionally hurtful when I'm being mindless and clumsy, or gawds forbid being self-indulgent ... quite likely I'll do some hard, if not cause some injury. But it isn't intentional ... rrriiiggght, that's the point of my essay.
"Not on purpose!" in the context of "I'm sorry" or at least "I regret" ... that speaks to good intention and positive motive.
But in context of "your brillance" and "so you don't freak out" and more and more ... what does that speak of?
Enjoy the ball game!
*takes 7th inning stretch; heads to kitchen for
hot-dog chicken pottage w/fried rice on pan-fried bread ... "peasant food" huh huh huh*
Re: I did not see that this one from you was today.
Sorry for the mixup on the posts, I have a bad habit of not filling subject lines on a lot of posts.
My real reason for lack of original reply not being long I did state....just within the mix of other rants "Or maybe it was late at night and I have 5 pages of e-mails to sort through and 15 people to try to catch back up with since I had not been on for a long time." In all honesty, like I said your posts are profound to me, those three lines popped into my head. Words from another teacher and I just put them down with out much thought. Maybe the lack of thought was the problem....sure you would agree. Anything worth doing is worth doing good? "Fact is effort is arguably of value"
"Would you rather me dish you deniably squirmy BS? I was at least clear. If calling for at least a complete sentence is "freaking out", well ... not likely I'm gonna get a fair hearing! But I was, at least, clear." Well like I said I don’t always know what you are saying or coming from so I can get confused. Like my second reply I thought I had made you angry by implying you are self absorbed or something....then sadly after I posted was when I realized it was about the length regardless of positive or negative quipage....at least I think....am I right? But no BS is just that, I cant deny that I like most people(sometimes) like deniably squirmy BS. Most likely we like it so we don’t actually have to engage in a form of dialog that will give us deeper insight into the nature of our own minds. Most people don’t like to think about what is in there, let alone think about adding what should be in there.
Any who its been a good lesson for me, I think you are right. Who knows a lot of what I say might have hidden self-cherishing, I don’t know for sure, maybe it does, maybe I just don’t speak right. I have a habit of being tactless sometimes, but my intention....I hope, is never to harm the other. Or I might be BSing myself. In the end only I know what I think if I want to even try.
Re: I did not see that this one from you was today.
"I have a bad habit of not filling subjec"
Ohh that's no biggie. I only sometimes use Subject here in LJ.
I think I wrote plenty about how it was posting in an entirely different post I took as aggreesive and insulting. All well and good to protest good intentions, but it's what we actually do that proves the pudding.
". Words from another teacher and I just put them down with out much thought. [...] Anything worth doing is worth doing good?"
Sure, kinda, yaa.
But dig: if what I wrote, at some length and with some effrot, had a bit of a good effect for you ... jogged you into some fresh thinking about what you already knew ... what better time to take *hell's bells!* even a whole 1.5 minutes to set out your own thinking. For yourself! It wudda proved the point: enlightened self-intersest (knowing that giving yourself a moment to chew on something rich) would have good effects on others (I might have had a bit of a sense that all this isn't a total waste.)
Our social habits ... actual actions and behaviours ... they betray the worst of our cultures. "Oh, it's just a deep thought, screw that noise. I'll just drop the first 3 words that come to mind and then profit muyself by saving 35 seconds." See what I mean? Not only do we make out that greed and ambition are virtues (which they sure as shit ain't!) but we figure that we'll profit from cutting corners. (Enron, war in Iraq, Colombia disaster, and on and on ...)
". Most likely we like it so we don’t actually have to engage in a form of dialog that will give us deeper insight into the nature of our own minds."
Now we're chewing the right end of the cow!! (Just made that up huh huh ... kinda silly, nae? *grin*)
Dig: not airy-faery hippy-dippy shit. Grab a decent book on psychology (or just google the web) and peek at anything talks about "cognitive dissonance". We humans (and prolly most animules) doooooooooooon't like having our brains strained. When comfortable familiar opinions and ideas seem to be cracked? Nuh-unh ... we scrambe as though our souls are in danger. (Which they are ... and we do precisely the wrong thing. Ick!)
My notion is this: the #1 thing we don't like (i.e. our brains are built / designed / wired to avoid it) is confusion. Questionning? A downer but not so bad. Real confusion? Peeeeeeewwwwwww!
"but my intention....I hope, is never to harm the other."
It's very hard to know our motives cuz looking back at what we did trying to see /why/ we did it good old brain plugs in all sortsa legit-sounding BS ... is what L and R brain do ... like a team of PR experts spinning stuff for reporters.
Is why so many wisdom traditions talk: keep a clear eye on what you're thinking in the moment. Mebbe we forget, mebbe we lose track, heck mebbe we fib cuz we're embarassed ... but it's the thing to try and do.
Recognize: if I claim "I have not intentionally hurt" is only mebbe 1/2 the deal. Mebbe. The claim has to be "I did not try to profit myself by cutting corners and leaving others short; I tried to do what seemed best." In little things it gives little benefits, which is kinda nice. Sometimes ... sometimes it makes big diffs.
good on you ... you have a very nice clear style ... forgive me for having lost track: are you in college? History of Poli-Sci will be good for you ... Rousseau and such-like, how we go about arranging things so we can live in a fair and just society, failed and frail though we are.
Re: I did not see that this one from you was today.
"But dig: if what I wrote, at some length and with some effrot, had a bit of a good effect for you ... jogged you into some fresh thinking about what you already knew ... what better time to take *hell's bells!* even a whole 1.5 minutes to set out your own thinking. For yourself! It wudda proved the point: enlightened self-intersest (knowing that giving yourself a moment to chew on something rich) would have good effects on others (I might have had a bit of a sense that all this isn't a total waste.)"
Your right, the memories it brought up are nice so I should have shared them with myself and with others. They are from one of my teachers Ani-la we just call her, very beautiful person, has a masters degree in Psychology I think. She is also the one who gave me my Refuge vows! She is great always getting me to think in a lot of different ways.
"It's very hard to know our motives cuz looking back at what we did trying to see /why/ we did it good old brain plugs in all sortsa legit-sounding BS ... is what L and R brain do ... like a team of PR experts spinning stuff for reporters.
Is why so many wisdom traditions talk: keep a clear eye on what you're thinking in the moment. Mebbe we forget, mebbe we lose track, heck mebbe we fib cuz we're embarassed ... but it's the thing to try and do."
Hard to remember what I was thinking, more then likely I was just cutting corners. I can be manipulative and not realize it. But most often I am usually a generally honest and good person......on a bad day I try to watch my tough. Its so easy isnt it? Liking people when we are in a good mood? Haha that’s a big one to work on with dharma practice. Ani-la calls that “The Art of Not Getting Angry....Even When You Think You Should.” Of course sometimes it seems good to be angry....we should be angry about war and trying to stop it and things like that. But in a social situation it usually does not much good.
Ya I am going to College, right now just basic stuff Math and English. But once I can start picking my classes I want to take some on psychology, sociology, and any classes that might be close to philosophy as well( I don’t think Ivy Tech and much in the way of Philosophy).